Discord & Rhyme: An Album Podcast

Discord and Rhyme is a podcast where we discuss the albums we love, song by song.

121: King Crimson - Red (1974)

July 04, 2023  /  Amanda Rodgers

"Everything you've heard about King Crimson is true. It's an absolutely terrifying place... In Yes was an endless debate about should it be F♮ in the bass with G♯ on top with the organ, or should it be the other way round. In King Crimson, almost nothing was said. You were just supposed to know."

—Bill Bruford

Part two of the Discord & Rhyme celebration of King Crimson brings us to the 1974 album Red, the band’s final studio(-ish) album before it disbanded for 7 years. John’s history with King Crimson began with this album, and while he didn’t initially like it, it’s long become his favorite King Crimson album, and the ‘72-’74 King Crimson lineup especially has long become one of his favorite bands. This episode examines how everything in King Crimson’s turbulent history to this point made this album possible, and how the band’s refusal to get pigeonholed as “progressive rock” allowed it to create some of the heaviest, most powerful, and most awe-inspiring music ever made under the general umbrella of “rock” music. Also, “Starless” might be the best song ever recorded, and we're happy to tell you why.

Miscellany

  • During the artist-history section, John didn’t mention the release of Earthbound, a June 1972 live album covering the Islands band’s early 1972 shows. Aside from an excellent rendition of “21st Century Schizoid Man,” it’s not an especially good live album (not least because the sound quality is pretty bad), but if it’s bad then it’s bad in a way that’s fascinating. 

  • During the “Providence” discussion, John mentioned that King Crimson played “Doctor Diamond” in early 1974, but the band also played it during most of 1973, which John should have remembered given that he has 4 recordings of the band playing “Doctor Diamond” in 1973.

  • The phrase “Starless and Bible Black” originally comes from the opening lines of the play Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas: “To begin at the beginning: It is spring, moonless night in the small town / Starless and bible-black”

  • Mike mentioned that we would not clip the portion of “Music For Strings, Percussion, and Celesta” by Béla Bartók that he compared the build portion of “Starless” to, and we have a good reason. The estate of Béla Bartók is notoriously litigious in regards to people using clips of his music without permission, and by not clipping the piece we save ourselves a lot of hassle. Mike’s comparison is an excellent one in any case.

  • We all had so many things to say about “Starless” that Mike didn’t even think to mention that it was used as the opening music to the utterly bonkers film Mandy, which is certainly not for all tastes, but is highly recommended if you like the idea of a movie where Nicolas Cage and a biker demon have a chainsaw fight.

  • The portion of “Symphonie Fantastique” (by Hector Berlioz) that Mike and John each thought of depicts the protagonist, in an opium-induced hallucination, witnessing his own execution and having one final memory of his beloved before his head is chopped off. We are not exaggerating, that's the description Berlioz himself gave of it.

  • We did not forget to mention Larks’ Tongues in Aspic in the recommendations; Mike mentioned it in the episode we did for In the Court of the Crimson King.

  • The tiers categories John used in the recommendations section are the portion sizes for the American ice cream store Coldstone Creamery, in case you wondered. 

  • Amanda has apologized for being such a tyrant about “Providence.”

Other links 

Discord & Rhyme Roll Call 

  • John McFerrin (host)

  • Mike DeFabio (moderator)

  • Amanda Rodgers

  • Phil Maddox 

Red tracklist 

  1. Red

  2. Fallen Angel

  3. One More Red Nightmare

  4. Providence

  5. Starless 

Other clips used 

King Crimson:

  • Easy Money (Amsterdam, 11/23/73)

  • Happy Family

  • Lizard

  • Islands

  • Larks’ Tongues in Aspic Pt. 2

  • Trio

  • VROOOM VROOOM

  • Fallen Angel Improv (Frankfurt, 10/13/72)

  • One More Red Nightmare (Exposed)

  • Doctor Diamond (Pittsburgh, 4/29/74)

  • Clueless and Slightly Slack (Toronto, 6/24/74)

  • Starless and Bible Black

  • Starless (Brescia, 3/20/74)

  • Fracture

  • Starless (Mainz, 3/30/74)

  • Starless (Providence, 6/30/74)

  • The Great Deceiver (Pittsburgh, 4/29/74)

  • Improv III (Heidelberg, 3/29/74)

  • Level Five

  • Asbury Park 

Others:

  • Taylor Swift - Red

  • Jel - Programmed to Hunt

  • Asia - Heat of the Moment

  • Miles Davis - Honky Tonk

  • Yes - Close to the Edge

  • Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (1-5)

  • Pink Floyd - Have a Cigar

  • Metallica - Dirty Window

  • Hector Berlioz - Marche au supplice

  • Nirvana - Scentless Apprentice

  • Robert Fripp - Breathless

  • Asia - Sole Survivor

  • Robert Fripp - Exposure

Band/album personnel 

  • Robert Fripp - electric and acoustic guitars, Mellotron, Hohner pianet

  • John Wetton - bass, vocals

  • Bill Bruford - drums, percussion

  • David Cross - violin, Mellotron (on “Providence”)

  • Mel Collins - soprano saxophone (on “Starless”)

  • Ian McDonald - alto saxophone (on “One More Red Nightmare” and “Starless”)

  • Mark Charig - cornet (on “Fallen Angel”)

  • Robin Miller - oboe (on “Fallen Angel”)

  • Uncredited - cello (on “Red,” “Fallen Angel,” and “Starless”), double bass (on “Starless”)

Credits 

“Discord & Rhyme (theme),” composed by the Other Leading Brand, contains elements of: 

  • Duran Duran - Hungry Like the Wolf

  • Amon Düül II - Dehypnotized Toothpaste

  • The Dukes of Stratosphear - What in the World?? ...

  • Faith No More - Midlife Crisis

  • Herbie Hancock - Hornets

  • Kraftwerk - Autobahn

  • Talking Heads - Seen and Not Seen

  • King Crimson - Red (this episode only) 

You can buy or stream Red and other albums by King Crimson at dgmlive.com, your local record store, or the usual suspects such as Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and Amazon. Follow Discord & Rhyme on Twitter @DiscordPod for news, updates, and other random stuff. Editing is by Amanda Rodgers, and special thanks to our own Mike DeFabio, the Other Leading Brand, for production and original music. See you next album, and keep as cool as you can.

tags / John McFerrin

This website and all episodes' discussion/commentary © 2018—2024 Discord & Rhyme. Excerpts from recordings appearing in episodes are included for purposes of review only, and all rights to such material remain property of their copyright holders. Please note that we make a good-faith effort to ensure all information included in these episodes is accurate, but if we get something wrong, let us know at discordpod@gmail.com and we will print a correction in the show notes. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases. Website design by Amanda Rodgers. Thank you for visiting, and keep as cool as you can.

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